Sunday, September 13, 2026

Church standards

 


My bishop couldn’t give me an explanation as to why. Maybe you can? In the 1990s I could walk down a high school hallway and pick out the LDS kids. The girls I could pick out at a glance. The boys took a five minute conversation, and not a conversation about religion. Their values gave them away. Their bearing gave them away. Something had formed them, and you could see the form on them like a mark. A people is a people because you can tell them apart. That was the whole point. They were peculiar, and they knew it, and it held. Try that in a hallway today. I could not do it. Neither could you. In the 1990s two men in a marriage would have been excommunicated. There was no debate about it. Today a member with a public name is married to another man, the two of them talk openly about shopping for eggs so they can have a child, and he remains in the fold. The LDS Church now says in its own official voice that members who identify as transgender are welcome. Members in good standing organize raves and market them to the Saints. Women who have been through the temple post pictures that make it plain the garment is gone, and nobody says a word. Here in my own town a man in public life was living in open violation of the law of chastity (swinger) and not hiding it. It was brought to his bishop. Nothing happened. In the Church I grew up in that would have ended in a disciplinary council. You can call this mercy. You can call it surrender. I am not arguing that question here. Reasonable Saints will land on both sides of it. What I am saying is narrower and harder to deny. The change is real. It is seismic. Anyone who lived the 1990s inside the Church knows it is real, and pretending otherwise is not charity. So what happened? Sincerely, Kirk

https://x.com/nicoraytruth/status/2099354162584822238?s=20

I think the brethren have been really really focused on building the global church. Unfortunately it sure feels like that made them lose focus on the heartland, and a cancer crept in and grew. I know God is at the head of this church. I also know the men who lead it are just as human as I am. They just have millions of people see their mistakes or missteps, whereas I, thankfully, only have a few that do that to me. Yes it sure looks like the ark is rocking, but God is in control, and he will not let this church fail. 1 Chronicles 13:9-10


This is a reasonable take.


I’m not sure either but it does break my heart a bit. In the same way children need clear direction and a standard, Christ gospel on the earth should also have a clear standard that you don’t cross and stay in good standing.

In order for it to be a covenant, it needs to function as a covenant bilaterally with each other and with God. imho


I think in some ways the church is a vehicle to provide access to the saving ordinances and knowledge of the gospel of Jesus Christ to maximize the amount of God’s children who can return to His presence after this life. So maybe the church’s approach is, well, ultimately Christ is the judge and so let’s err on the side of caution and keep these ppl in the fold. But we all know bc we have the light of Christ and if we are members, we have the gift of the Holy Ghost, and from the scriptural and prophetic record that there are higher laws and not all of us will make it to the highest degree of the celestial kingdom. So maybe the church is salvation and ordinance maxxing knowing they will be overshooting the mark in an effort to give everyone that opportunity. 🤷 yo no se

Reasonable take


Grok: I’ll look up official LDS policy changes and documented cultural shifts since the 1990s so the answer can separate what actually changed from impression. The change you describe is real. Official doctrine on marriage and sex did not flip. Practice, enforcement, and the social texture of the membership did. That is why a 1990s hallway and a 2020s hallway feel like different churches even when the Proclamation is still on the wall. What did not change The Church still teaches that marriage is between a man and a woman, that sexual relations belong only there, and that gender means biological sex at birth. Same-sex marriage is still called a serious transgression. Elective medical or social transition still brings membership restrictions. Temple garments are still a covenant obligation. Those lines are written in the current General Handbook. deseret.com What did change Enforcement and classification shifted. • After Obergefell (2015), the Church briefly treated same-sex marriage as apostasy and restricted ordinances for the children of those couples. In 2019 it reversed both pieces. Same-sex marriage is no longer treated as apostasy for disciplinary purposes; it is grouped with other sexual sins. Children of same-sex couples can be baptized without First Presidency approval. web.archive.org • Membership councils (the old disciplinary councils) are required for a narrower list of grave cases and only may be held for adultery, fornication, cohabitation, and same-sex relations. Local leaders have more discretion. Senior leaders have publicly noted that councils and withdrawals of membership have declined. churchofjesuschrist.org • Transgender people are told they are welcome in meetings. Baptism and full privileges are available if they do not medically or socially transition. Social transition (name, pronouns, dress) now triggers restrictions. That is both more pastoral language than the 1980s–90s “ordinarily excommunicate after surgery” rule and a tighter recent clamp on social transition. nytimes.com • Member opinion moved faster than the Handbook. Support among U.S. Latter-day Saints for legal same-sex marriage roughly doubled in a decade. Younger endowed members wear garments far less consistently than Boomers. Distinctive dress, speech, and sexual ethics that once marked LDS youth in a hallway have thinned for the same reason they thinned in every other American religious group: the surrounding culture stopped treating those markers as normal. religionnews.com A public member in a same-sex marriage, a swinger whose bishop does nothing, women posting that the garment is gone—these are not Handbook permissions. They are what happens when the center of gravity of a congregation moves and a bishop decides a council would cost more souls than it saves. Why it happened Several forces ran at once. 1. The country changed. From the mid-1990s through Obergefell, same-sex marriage went from fringe to constitutional. Prop 8 made the Church a national villain in a way 1990s Utah never did. After that, the institutional strategy shifted from trying to stop the law to protecting the Church’s right not to perform or recognize those marriages. The 2022 support for the Respect for Marriage Act is the clearest example: accept civil same-sex marriage in exchange for statutory religious-liberty shields. en.wikipedia.org 2. Generations turned over. People formed in the 1970s–90s correlation era carried a thick subculture: missions, garments, early marriage, visible modesty, low tolerance for public sexual irregularity. Millennials and Gen Z were formed by the internet, later marriage, and a culture that treats LGBTQ identity as a civil-rights category. Retention of those raised in the Church dropped sharply. A church that still used 1990s enforcement on 2020s members would shrink faster. Bishops feel that locally even when Salt Lake restates the doctrine. religionnews.com



"Individuals who transition away from their biological sex at birth are welcome to attend sacrament meetings and participate in the Church in many other ways." Why would I want my children exposed to this evil? This doesn't happen at my local Eastern Orthodox service.
Individuals Who Identify as Transgender Gender is an essential characteristic in Heavenly Father’s plan of happiness (see Genesis 1:27). The intended meaning of gender in “The Family: A Proclamation to the World” is biological sex at birth. (For those whose biological sex is not clear at birth, see 38.7.7.) Some people feel their inner sense of gender does not align with their biological sex at birth. The Church does not take a position on the causes of these feelings. Some who experience these feelings identify as transgender. These individuals often face complex challenges. They—and their family and friends—should be treated with sensitivity, kindness, compassion, and Christlike love. All are children of God and have divine worth. The ordinances of salvation and exaltation are received according to a person’s biological sex at birth. For guidance about administering these ordinances, refer to the following: Baptism and confirmation (see 38.2.8.9) Priesthood ordination (see 38.2.9.9) Temple ordinances (see 26.5.6) Worthy individuals who do not pursue surgical, medical, or social transition away from their biological sex at birth may enjoy all the privileges of Church membership. Church leaders counsel against pursuing surgical, medical, or social transition away from one’s biological sex at birth. (Social transitioning means intentionally identifying and presenting oneself as other than one’s biological sex at birth, and may include changing dress, grooming, names, or pronouns.) Leaders advise that taking these actions will result in some Church membership restrictions. These restrictions include receiving or exercising the priesthood, receiving or using a temple recommend, and serving in some Church callings. Individuals who transition away from their biological sex at birth are welcome to attend sacrament meetings and participate in the Church in many other ways. These individuals and their families are encouraged to counsel with their local leaders regarding Church participation. Church leaders teach gospel truth and minister in a Christlike way. They consider the needs of all involved. Sections of this handbook—such as attendance at Church meetings and activities (see 38.1.1), participation in family history work (see 25.1 and 25.4), service to others (see 22.2.3), and so on—should guide leaders as they counsel with individuals and their families. For further guidance on Church participation of individuals who identify as transgender, refer to these guiding principles. Members who have taken steps to transition and then transition back to their biological sex at birth and are worthy and committed to keeping God’s commandments may enjoy all the privileges of Church membership. Circumstances vary greatly from person to person and can change over time. Members who feel their inner sense of gender does not align with their biological sex at birth or who identify as transgender, as well as the parents or guardians of minors facing such circumstances, are encouraged to seek counsel from their bishop. Bishops counsel with the stake president to address individual circumstances with sensitivity and Christlike love. Stake and mission presidents seek counsel from the Area Presidency.


"Individuals who transition away from their biological sex at birth are welcome to attend sacrament meetings and participate in the Church in many other ways." why would I want my kids exposed to this crap?


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